Welcome Forums Forums The Coffee Bar AI and the Future of Photography

Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
  • Author
  • Johnclare369
      Post count: 51

      AI and its impact on our photography and competitions

      A significant number of CCC members have been engaged in a lively discussion about the impact of AI on photography, prompted by the new AI tools in Adobe Photoshop. Much of the discussion has taken place on social media sites including the CCC Chat WhatsApp group and Facebook.  I’m starting a similar thread here so all members can have their say.

      This is, after all, our virtual coffee shop where we can discuss such matters!

      There is no doubt that AI offers great opportunities for image makers and a challenge for competitions. In the words of Dan Jones, RPS CEO:
      It is clear that, whether the potential of AI excites or intimidates us, photography will never be quite the same.

      Whatever we think of the software, it does raise ethical as well as practical questions including ‘What is a photograph?’ ‘What should be allowed?’ and ‘How can it be policed?’ All of this in an atmosphere of not wanting to stifle creativity or create a climate of suspicion where it is not warranted.

      Here are some links to useful posts in the debate:

      If you’re not familiar with what PS AI can do, take a look:

      The RPS is very active. Free event open to non-members on Wednesday June 21st here (Scroll down RPS page):

      Event in November here: https://events.rps.org/en/4LrdQ66/promptography-vs-photography-with-boris-eldagsen-4a2N4Lhgp3/overview

      I look forward to a lively discussion!

        Post count: 51

        The RPS interim position on the use of AI (published June 19th 2023):

        RPS position on AI
        • AI image processing and manipulation has been part of camera and post-processing software for several years.
        • The recent development of advanced generative AI tools, where entirely new images or image elements are built at a pixel level using non-photographic processes, moves image-creation from photography to illustration.
        • The RPS believes images generated solely via AI are not photography as defined in its Royal Charter.
        • The RPS considers AI-enabled algorithmic automation of basic imaging processing (including exposure optimisation in-camera, the cloning of a background, or removal of subject elements), as being under the control of the photographer and represents an on-going evolution of long-standing capabilities.  
        • The RPS does not endorse the way some AI tools have been trained with datasets of photography without the permission of the rights owner. As part of a vibrant creative community, the RPS will continue to support the artistic, commercial and moral rights of all photographers, artists and creators. 
        • Establishing exactly what is and isn’t the product of AI will become increasingly hard to discern and will require ongoing consideration, transparency and discussion when reviewing work for Distinction submissions, exhibitions and competitions.

          Post count: 51

          RPS guidelines re AI on June 18th 2023:
          RPS guidelines on the use of AI for members
          1. The RPS remains committed to the principle that photographs should be the original work of the creator(s), so entirely generative images, or images with material elements entirely generated by AI will not be permitted for Distinction submissions, exhibitions and competitions. What constitutes material in this context is a grey area, and something the RPS will continue to explore with its creative community.
          2. The RPS will continue to accept the use of algorithmic processing in-camera or in post-processing software, which supports digital photography for Distinction submissions, exhibitions and competitions, on the condition that photographers are clear and open where such tools have been used. The RPS will trust in the integrity of its community but in certain circumstances may request further evidence in the form of RAW files or EXIF data, data, accepting that such evidence may itself not be definitive.
          3. These principles and guidelines are effective for the remainder of 2023 only and do not constitute a final, fixed position; they will evolve as AI capabilities change and understating increases.

          Dan Jones
          19 June 2023

            Post count: 51

            Where does PS AI get it’s images?

            A big question is: Where does PS get the images it uses? Here’s the answer:

            Photoshop’s Generative Fill is powered by Adobe Firefly, a group of machine learning models that were trained on millions of the company’s own stock images and other public domain content. In other words, you don’t have to worry about AI using someone’s copyrighted material in your photos. But you’ll still have to wait as Adobe isn’t giving away commercial rights to its AI generations just yet.

            The whole piece is worth reading:
            Generative Fill explained

              Post count: 51

              Reflections on the RPS/Adobe talk on June 21st 2023
              John Clare

              There’s no doubt that the AI tools in PS are incredible. Interestingly, Rufus (Adobe worldwide evangelist) never referred to AI-generated content as photography. In fact he said it isn’t. Key points that I took away from it:
              In addition to PS, the main Adobe effort is in Firefly. https://Firelfy site Take a look…it’s free and open to all, even without a Creative Cloud subscription!

              It appears Adobe have put a lot of effort into ensuring all source material for AI generation is copyright-free. Impressively, they have launched the Content Authentication Initiative along with the New York Times, Twitter, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Leica and other global names. It will allow you to upload an image and learn all the steps taken in its production, and where AI was involved. It appears you can only upload one image at a time, so that’s no good for eg CISP.

              They say we used to have ‘Trust but verify’ and now we have ‘verify then trust’ ie you can verify an image with the CAI, then trust the result.

              Abode cannot, however, say how much of an image was generated by AI. Other companies might, and there was talk of ‘AI heat maps’ showing where AI had been used.

                Post count: 51

                RPS summary continued:

                However, the situation re comps is less positive. Someone could create an image using AI, re-photograph it, enter it, and it would bypass the verification process. My takeaway was that it was great for commercial photography and creativity, but less good for comps.

                What it can do is really impressive – or scary. It can, for example, replace blocked shadows or blown highlights. It create images just by word prompts.

                Rufus made an argument that PS tools already use AI, eg content-aware, sky replacement, noise reduction. In my opinion, this is different because it is adding other elements not captured at photographs or created by the photographer.

                There was a question about whether, in time, we will have to subscribe to Adobe Stock to use the AI tools. The answer is almost certainly yes.

                A recording will be made available at the RPS AI hub in a few days: RPS AI site

              Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.